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Thread: A quasi-objective way to judge physics of sim cars

  1. #11
    I asked same question a year ago on my youtube channel. Three guys replied and they tried on AC cars with Chris Harris' way:



    His reply:
    "Hey! I had roughly the same idea making this video http://youtu.be/wiDYj67ZvQI a couple of weeks ago. It shows Pagani Huayra and LaFerrari drifting including my german live-commentary. I can get the F40 and the SLS as well to drift fairly nice and also the MP4 is possible with a little bit of practice. I have driven with street tyres on a green track. At the end of the video you can find a whole lap witch both cars without my weird german voice xD
    If I had the time I would try to replicate every scene of the Chris Harris drfting video in AC, just for the sake of looks and comparison.
    Interesting: With the LaFerrari Chris says, that you can stay a gear higher as you think and I have tried that, too. Even the slowest ~50 km/h corner on Vallelunga is driftable in 3rd gear. Torque ftw "

    Other guy did too:



    The last guy replied:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/xuPJ0_vr9U/?modal=true

    How do you guys think the physics of AC cars?

    (PS: Chris Harris videos:
    See at 6:1, 6:30, 10:27, 11:56, 12:50, 13:30, 13:50, and 14:15 in his Ferrari La Ferrari video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaAQW8lVaRM

    see at 0:40, 5:13, 8:30, 8:47, 9:04, and 9:20 in his Mercedes SLS AMG video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkjqQ1rXpRs

  2. #12
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    "how to evalue realism of simulated vehicle" would be interesting subject to think/discuss of.

    Even test driving the real and the simulated car might not be good because driving experiences of those differ even if simulated and real car behaved in exactly same way. Maybe videos and telemetry data would be the best way then?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe View Post
    2) Non-grip state (sliding state): dynamic behavior is not that well studied and when and how a car starts to slide is pretty much “unknown”, as “black art”: So, judging if a sim is realistic or not is mainly based on comparing on real life on non-grip state (driving at and beyond the limit) sees more meaningful.
    That's the part that matters and where almost every sim falls apart. In racing you push a car. You are constantly approaching and going over (regardless if it's small amounts, not-so-small amounts, or very large amounts) the limits of grip. Braking, turn-in. mid-corner, exit, corner after corner. This is where most sims fall apart. The way cars behave/act/react as you start to push and play with limits. Specifically in-terms of oversteer, the only sims that don't fall apart and don't go outside of their "sweet spot" are Netkar Pro, Live For Speed, and Driver's Republic Alpha (Assetto Corsa is part way there as the lower speed, less edgy cars, are quite good). They aren't perfectly accurate, of course not, no sim is, but the vehicle dynamics and kinematics go into and out of those states extremely "smoothly"; the "maths" of the physics go into and out of those states extremely "smoothly" regardless if it's a slow slide, a faster slide, a sudden snap-slide, large slip angle, small ones, high speed, low speed, a half-spin, a full spin, an F1 Car, an F2000 car. It doesn't feel like a different physics engine takes over, or something in the "maths" breaks when those situations occur in those 3 games (and partly in Assetto Corsa).

    Judging just from things like overall grip and corner speeds, well, that hardly means anything. You can technically have 100 different sims all nail down corner speeds and grip while each's physics drive completely differently. Some charts showing simplistic things like brake points, down changes, corner speeds, etc. don't mean much in my opinion. It's how the vehicle, the physics engine behaves/responds/acts/reacts that is important to nailing down vehicle dynamics and kinematics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minibull View Post
    That video looks wrong compared to drifting in real life, LFS, or even AC. It does all the typical weird ISI behavior. Massive issues with what I'm guessing is called lateral momentum and how the rear rotates relative to the original vehicle's direction of travel. That has been evident in any ISI physics engine from at-least F1 2002 to present day (RFactor 2), it's a far cry from Live For Speed, Assetto Corsa, Driver's Republic behavior, let alone real-life. The very first time I saw that NSX preview vid - in massive excitement if I may add - I could tell there were no revolutionary physics changes under the core but rather just another car added to the lineup (and a fun car at that, don't get me wrong).

  4. #14
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    How about posting video from rF2 showing how you can't do it?

  5. #15
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    Flat 6 mod to the rescue

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guimengo View Post
    Flat 6 mod to the rescue

    GimkhanaFlat-6

  7. #17
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    This might be the dumbest physics talk I have seen on these forums.
    It's like reading a book review made by illiterate mouth-breather.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazza View Post
    How about posting video from rF2 showing how you can't do it?
    No, no intention to that, neither want/wish to do so.
    Honestly, I do not believe AC is better than rF2 on this regard.

    I did try the BMW 235i of AC. With "full throttle" as Chris taught to get into oversteer, I seem start to slide but no way I can manage stage 2 and 3 of which he was teaching us on his real BWM. Similarly, I tired some rF2 cars, stage 2 and stage 3 fails on me.

    The guys' videos on AC cars look like they managed both stages but I am not sure how much throttle they applied. I have a doubt on this. If applied that much throttle ("full") on both AC and rF2 cars, I got spin off right after encount the steering. I give up.

    Chris Harris made so easy on this video. there must be some truths. Hey, there are tons of hard core racers here. Some one got to try and let us know. We all need one and only one who is going to show us he can do that as Chris Harris did on real cars.

  9. #19
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    I personally think that the inherent lag in our sims are what make it tricky to drift well.
    I remember seeing a shot of kimi coming back on track, he cuts a big slide in his f1 car, but absolutely immediately you see his hands whip to correct, and as soon as it comes back out of it, his hands whip back to stop the overcorrection.

    When I've looked at slides that made me go "wtf", I always see my actual reactions are just ever so slightly behind the cars movements.
    The computer has to process the state, send it to the gpu and out to the monitor, which them has to display it there, and only then when I see it amd process it, can I respond, which has to go back in to the computer and be processed, etc.
    As far as I can see IRL, kimi would have had his whole body sensing the slide with just his uber quick reaction times as a delay.

    Not saying this is the answer, it's just something I always notice when something goes wrong for me.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golanv View Post
    This might be the dumbest physics talk I have seen on these forums.
    It's like reading a book review made by illiterate mouth-breather.
    You know, this forum is getting pretty damn toxic. It's a HUGE turn off to people new to rF2.

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