NOTICE Notice: This is an old thread and information may be out of date. The last post was 2018 days ago. Please consider making a new thread.
Page 6 of 11 FirstFirst ... 2345678910 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 120 of 211

Thread: Some new WIP images

  1. #101
    Registered K Szczech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    1,855
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Sawczuk View Post
    You got me thinking here. In the context of rF1, a light map and multiplying would do pretty much the same thing right? As there is only one light source, and shadows are added afterwards... Correct?
    Well, static ambient o0cclusion on buildings etc. can be done in rFactor, but on the other hand - there are no tools that would let you do it.

    An artist would need to put such greyscale ambient textures on a model:

    An then put actual textures on it.

    In GMT files used by rFactor, each texture has it's own mapping (own UV set) and I think it's obvious that you need to use different UV for main texture and for ambient map.
    Unfortunately, neither 3D studio nor Blender, nor 3Dsimed can do that (even if rFactor can).

    On some smaller objects you can just darken main texture near corners and under roofs. It's far from perfect, but still better than entirely flat shading of interiors.
    This is how it's done with cars - ambient occlusion is added to car's texture.

    But in saying that I just realised, isn't this what a bump map can do and have it be dynamic?
    No.
    Amount of ambient light received by given object is controlled by "proximity of other objects" that may cover the main source of ambient light - the sky.

    So it's not about having some texture on an object, it's about knowing where other objects are. So no texture tricks will give you dynamic ambient occlusion or anything near it.
    Only static ambient occlusion can be done using textures, because if objects do not move, artist will know which parts will be darker.

  2. #102
    Registered simfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    90
    Looking at this image I'm sure that there is no ambient occlusion for now.
    Marked places should be darker.


  3. #103
    Registered Alex Sawczuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Somewhere day dreaming about travelling around the world
    Posts
    142
    There is clearly ambient occlusion there. Just rather light.

  4. #104
    Registered Alex Sawczuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Somewhere day dreaming about travelling around the world
    Posts
    142
    Quote Originally Posted by K Szczech View Post
    Well, static ambient o0cclusion on buildings etc. can be done in rFactor, but on the other hand - there are no tools that would let you do it.

    An artist would need to put such greyscale ambient textures on a model:

    An then put actual textures on it.

    In GMT files used by rFactor, each texture has it's own mapping (own UV set) and I think it's obvious that you need to use different UV for main texture and for ambient map.
    Unfortunately, neither 3D studio nor Blender, nor 3Dsimed can do that (even if rFactor can).

    On some smaller objects you can just darken main texture near corners and under roofs. It's far from perfect, but still better than entirely flat shading of interiors.
    This is how it's done with cars - ambient occlusion is added to car's texture.


    No.
    Amount of ambient light received by given object is controlled by "proximity of other objects" that may cover the main source of ambient light - the sky.

    So it's not about having some texture on an object, it's about knowing where other objects are. So no texture tricks will give you dynamic ambient occlusion or anything near it.
    Only static ambient occlusion can be done using textures, because if objects do not move, artist will know which parts will be darker.
    You can easily do it in 3ds Max, it's possible to do it with some shaders in default rf. I've done it a lot elsewhere too

  5. #105
    Registered Alex Sawczuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Somewhere day dreaming about travelling around the world
    Posts
    142
    Quote Originally Posted by mianiak View Post
    I have always wondered if a multa can be added into the default car shader and if it would look better than the shading layer used in templates.

    I just tested using t1 and t1 mul t2, it doesn't seem to do exactly the same thing using the same shades (I mean making the multa map by opening the car template in PS and adding a white layer under the shading layer with the same blend as the normal skin), it comes out lighter. But, using a different blend in PS can darken it up and will give it the same effect.
    I just used simed to render it quickly and get a basic idea.
    t1 with shading layer : t1 with no shading layer : t1 mul t2 with the same levels of shade on the multa map as the normal skin : t1 mul t2 with an exaggerated darker shade on the multa map

    But in saying that I just realised, isn't this what a bump map can do and have it be dynamic?
    What about greyscale normal maps? Which would basically just be this multa map.
    It would be pointless having a separate light map or ao maps on cars, as especially on the car body everything is mapped uniquely. It'd be a waste of shader operations.

  6. #106
    Registered K Szczech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    1,855
    There is clearly ambient occlusion there. Just rather light.
    Yes. Although it's hard to tell if it's really some form of ambient occlusion or is it just texture that was manually darkened by artist.

    You can easily do it in 3ds Max, it's possible to do it with some shaders in default rf. I've done it a lot elsewhere too
    Yeah, 3DS MAX probably can, but .3ds file format cannot support multiple UV sets, and 3DSimEd does not support .max file format AFAIK.

    But of course you can just use vertex colors instead of ambient texture.

    It would be pointless having a separate light map or ao maps on cars, as especially on the car body everything is mapped uniquely. It'd be a waste of shader operations.
    Not really.
    Proper shadowing equation is like that:

    pixelColor = (colorMap * diffuseLighting + specularMap * specularLighting) * shadowMap + colorMap * ambientMap * ambientLight

    Note that shadowmap affects diffuse and specular lighting only and ambient map affects ambient lighting only.

    Some games still make the mistake of doing it like that:
    pixelColor = colorMap * (diffuseLighting + ambientLight) + specularMap * specularLighting
    And then they darken previously rendered scene where shadows and ambient occlusion is.

    That's incorrect, because you will still be able to see, for example, specular reflections inside a shadow or have directional/specular lighting weakened where ambient occlusion is.
    Last edited by K Szczech; 07-22-11 at 09:42 AM.

  7. #107
    Registered dragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    127
    Again, no announcement fulfilled a movie?

  8. #108
    Banned mclaren777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    538
    I'm eagerly hitting F5 every 30 minutes hoping for some videos.

  9. #109
    Registered YoShImUrA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Madrid(Spain)
    Posts
    52
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Wheatley View Post

    Human eyes do not see lens flare like that or that state of silhouette. However if you are asking for that in replay it's always possible we'll get there.

    I could definitely see my wifes face very clearly when I took this photo, the camera could not, but that's exactly what I wanted when I took the photo...

    Attachment 218

    However, the guys are certainly working to keep things realistic...
    Thanks for answering, Tim. Although I agree with your point, how many times you've been blinded in the morning/afternoon/evening by driving towards the sun (no sunglasses to wear) and this intense light prevents you from being able to properly watch the road or the other cars in front? that is what I was talking about that it would be great to have in some kind of way for dawn/dusk racing... =)
    HistorX.net - Historic FIA GT for rFactor

  10. #110
    Registered sg333's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,408
    Quote Originally Posted by mclaren777 View Post
    I'm eagerly hitting F5 every 30 minutes hoping for some videos.
    Tim said no ETA on the last page

    Tim, are we talking hours/days/weeks for the new video???

  11. #111
    Registered Alex Sawczuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Somewhere day dreaming about travelling around the world
    Posts
    142
    Quote Originally Posted by K Szczech View Post
    Yes. Although it's hard to tell if it's really some form of ambient occlusion or is it just texture that was manually darkened by artist.


    Yeah, 3DS MAX probably can, but .3ds file format cannot support multiple UV sets, and 3DSimEd does not support .max file format AFAIK.
    You should be using the proper tools. 3dsimed is useless if you want to do anything properly.

  12. #112
    Registered MaXyM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Prague / CR
    Posts
    1,907
    Yeas, that's why he write own tools

  13. #113
    Knowledgable Person mianiak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    946
    Getting a bit off topic here, but for the record, Dave put a paste uv co-ords button in simed, if you have to use .3ds, save duplicate models with all different uv's, you can then copy and paste them to the desired layer in simed.

    Back on topic, so ambient occlusion would be a mix of shadow, reflected light, ambient light and direct light? I see why this wouldn't work with just a bump map (just when I thought I was getting an understanding of how shaders work dynamically ). I wonder how the real time reflection will play in this. If you have a building with a white path out the front it should light up the front of the building more so than if it were a black path yes? If that's the case and if that is possible to do, then you really don't need an ambient occlusion shader cause the environment will generate its own.

  14. #114
    ISI Staff Staff Tim Wheatley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    USA (Central)
    Posts
    10,752
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Sawczuk View Post
    You got me thinking here. In the context of rF1, a light map and multiplying would do pretty much the same thing right? As there is only one light source, and shadows are added afterwards... Correct?
    As I said in a previous post there really is never one light source. Light bounces and this occludes shadowing.

    The photo of the manikin someone posted, if there was truly one light source, the shadow on the face would have been an absolute black because the light from the sun wouldn't reach it, but it does because it bounces off objects. The most direct route being sun - face - back of hand - back onto the face ontop of the shadow.

  15. #115
    ISI Staff Staff Tim Wheatley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    USA (Central)
    Posts
    10,752
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Sawczuk View Post
    There is clearly ambient occlusion there. Just rather light.
    There may have just been some texturing for what you're seeing. I don't think it's in yet.....

  16. #116
    ISI Staff Staff Tim Wheatley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    USA (Central)
    Posts
    10,752
    Quote Originally Posted by sg333 View Post
    Tim said no ETA on the last page

    Tim, are we talking hours/days/weeks for the new video???
    A week maybe.

  17. #117
    Registered MaXyM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Prague / CR
    Posts
    1,907
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Wheatley View Post
    As I said in a previous post there really is never one light source. Light bounces and this occludes shadowing.

    The photo of the manikin someone posted, if there was truly one light source, the shadow on the face would have been an absolute black because the light from the sun wouldn't reach it, but it does because it bounces off objects. The most direct route being sun - face - back of hand - back onto the face ontop of the shadow.
    imo ambient occlusion is result of presence of ambient light. Not multiply-times reflected direct one.

  18. #118
    ISI Staff Staff Tim Wheatley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    USA (Central)
    Posts
    10,752
    Quote Originally Posted by MaXyM View Post
    imo ambient occlusion is result of presence of ambient light. Not multiply-times reflected direct one.
    That's what ambient light is. When you're outside on a sunny day it certainly isn't any other light source than the sun is it?

  19. #119
    Registered MaXyM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Prague / CR
    Posts
    1,907
    Yes, sun is one and only light source. But ambient occlusion is affected by sunlight dispersed by the atmosphere rather than reflected

    In other words, day is bright because the sky is 'shining'. Not because sun is reflected by trees, buildings, your hand etc
    Last edited by MaXyM; 07-22-11 at 01:46 PM.

  20. #120
    ISI Staff Staff Tim Wheatley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    USA (Central)
    Posts
    10,752
    Quote Originally Posted by MaXyM View Post
    Yes, sun is one and only light source. But ambient occlusion is affected by sunlight dispersed by the atmosphere rather than reflected

    In other words, day is bright because the sky is 'shining'. Not because sun is reflected by trees, buildings, your hand etc
    I think we're both saying the same thing actually. I think both types of reflected light have big roles to play in lighting our surroundings, but it's important to know that anything a human looks at is always pretty close to some other object (usually ourselves), and our skin, our clothes, really affect what we see. If you make a cone shape out of non-reflective black card, lay on the ground to minimise the light getting in and look up into it, I guarantee you can see inside the cone. This will be the light bouncing off your face lighting inside the cone.

Page 6 of 11 FirstFirst ... 2345678910 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •