NOTICE Notice: This is an old thread and information may be out of date. The last post was 432 days ago. Please consider making a new thread.
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: GS 4 seats

  1. #1
    Newer Member Greg23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Lafayette IN USA
    Posts
    26

    GS 4 seats

    So...I'm getting ready to put in a SimXperience order and I run across GS 4 seats.

    From the reviews I've been able to dig up the seat might even be better than a motion rig at half the cost. The sense I've gotten is the GS 4 and a standard motion system (like a SX Stage 1) is really the way to go. The seat is best for cornering/acceleration/braking (the more sustained forces) and the rig is best for bumps and road feel. SimXperience apparently contracted with the guy who makes/made the GS 4 and offered them for a while. Then they stopped offering the seats and put him to work on the new AccuForce wheel. There MAY be another seat offered in the future.

    Does anyone have any experience with the GS 4 that could add something here? Anybody got one to sell?? I found Bergisons GS4 homemade clone and it looks like I might have to look into making my own (not out of wood, of course). BTW the seat belt tension addition looks really good.

    So...there goes my 'plug and play' plan, as it looks like I could be spending a good part of my winter fabricating and wiring a seat. I would really have to read up on control circuits, unless someone here has done one and could tutor me. Or maybe I could find a sympathetic soul at X-Sim to help.

    My question for this post (aside from 'Where can I get a seat?') is: When SX was offering them there were modules in the SimCommander software for the seat. They say, if you have a seat, they still provide support but if I buy a current package and add a seat of my own will the current SimCommander software handle it? I'm assuming it's versatile enough that even if they don't provide a specific seat module it can be 'told' to control the Stage 1 AND a seat. Does anybody know?

    P.S. The guy who made the GS 4 seats was not very far from where I live. Just my luck/timing. Drats!

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Registered jkn87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    spain
    Posts
    78
    Gs4 costs 3000 usd aprox
    Universal motion base + 2actuators costed me arroun 1500 usd.

    Gs4 is discontinued production

  3. #3
    Registered Adrianstealth's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    England (Leicester )
    Posts
    3,078
    only my opinion but I'd stay clear of the seat, it uses low grade actuators that are also know to break
    ( although fairly inexpensive to replace)

    the seat rocker type setups are great + consider using a racing harness tethered to a spring mech
    ( to apply tension to body during breaking and cornering etc )
    [SIZE=5][/SIZE

  4. #4
    Registered Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    340
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrianstealth View Post
    only my opinion but I'd stay clear of the seat, it uses low grade actuators that are also know to break
    ( although fairly inexpensive to replace)

    the seat rocker type setups are great + consider using a racing harness tethered to a spring mech
    ( to apply tension to body during breaking and cornering etc )
    I probably know how to do for Braking (relatively easy)... do you know how to implement for Cornering? This could be my next DIY project if I ever have time.

  5. #5
    Registered Adrianstealth's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    England (Leicester )
    Posts
    3,078
    It's my next project too

    I hope to get some cornering effect by routing the ends of the harness close to the rear centre of my rig
    Will test & adjust -may use bungee strap cord ( the common type with hooks on end although I intend to get them stitched with adjustable fanseners etc) should work to some degree
    [SIZE=5][/SIZE

  6. #6
    Registered Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    340
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrianstealth View Post
    It's my next project too

    I hope to get some cornering effect by routing the ends of the harness close to the rear centre of my rig
    Will test & adjust -may use bungee strap cord ( the common type with hooks on end although I intend to get them stitched with adjustable fanseners etc) should work to some degree
    Let me know if you figure out how to do for the "cornering". Actually, I felt the cornering g-effect is good enough for me, once I turned up the lateral-g strength over 200%. I am pretty happy on that. The issue I have for the braking g-effect.
    Here is the CXC solution by adding single connect point with strong springs for tension:




    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Seat-belt-tension1.jpg 
Views:	1544 
Size:	73.0 KB 
ID:	18714Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Seat-belt-tension2.jpg 
Views:	1521 
Size:	73.1 KB 
ID:	18715

    I think I may need to change my springs, tight into single point, and adjust the length accordingly:


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	My-Seat-belt.jpg 
Views:	1400 
Size:	68.4 KB 
ID:	18716

  7. #7
    Registered Adrianstealth's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    England (Leicester )
    Posts
    3,078
    yes nice find, they are doing something similar

    I don't really want anything else plugged into my PC, so this method I think would be best

    I assume springs may be a bit clunky ( when no one sitting in seat) so this is why I'm steering towards bungee cord with some time of plastic cord clamp ( so they can be adjusted so everything just right )
    [SIZE=5][/SIZE

  8. #8
    Registered Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    340
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrianstealth View Post

    I assume springs may be a bit clunky ( when no one sitting in seat) so this is why I'm steering towards bungee cord with some time of plastic cord clamp ( so they can be adjusted so everything just right )
    Yes, need strong spring and not too tighten the belt. In worst case, I calculate as following. Say max braking at 5g (F1 car). Assuming upbody mas is half of your body, that give brake g force is 2.5g.
    To feel the 2.5g force on the seat belt, you need tighten belt. For my 150mm actuators, say max movement from mid point ~ 70mm (0.07m) so the springs travel distance would be 0.07m.

    F= - k x distance that leads: 2.5g = -k x 0.07 so k = 350 N/m or 700 lb/in. For three springs, with each would be with k = 233 lb/in. Now, this is worst case, basically I tighten up the belt and choking to "death". In reality, I cannot tighten belt like this, so I need to leave room for. So the spring travel distance would be far less than 70mm. Lets say half of 70mm, 35mm. I need three springs with each at least k= 2x233 = 466 lb/in spring. I will shop for those springs.

  9. #9
    Registered Adrianstealth's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    England (Leicester )
    Posts
    3,078
    it depends how much motion you have set in your motion profile(s)

    ideally I imagine fastening race harness under light tension ( bit of stretch in cord or Spring ) then that increases noticable as body moves forward brake , decreases for body moving back ( accelerate ) , hopefully sideways too

    how long/tension of the cord + setting must work together - I'll keep same motion profiles and setup to that, I imagine it's tinkering + trial & error that will get good results I'd not bother trying to work it out on paper
    [SIZE=5][/SIZE

  10. #10
    Registered Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    340
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg23 View Post
    My question for this post (aside from 'Where can I get a seat?') is: When SX was offering them there were modules in the SimCommander software for the seat. They say, if you have a seat, they still provide support but if I buy a current package and add a seat of my own will the current SimCommander software handle it? I'm assuming it's versatile enough that even if they don't provide a specific seat module it can be 'told' to control the Stage 1 AND a seat. Does anybody know?

    P.S. The guy who made the GS 4 seats was not very far from where I live. Just my luck/timing. Drats!

    Thanks.
    As I recalled that I read somewhere the sim-x products lisence key is transferable.
    If the original owner bought from Sim-x, then you are OK. If not, you may need to contact sim-x first before buying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrianstealth View Post
    it depends how much motion you have set in your motion profile(s)

    ideally I imagine fastening race harness under light tension ( bit of stretch in cord or Spring ) then that increases noticable as body moves forward brake , decreases for body moving back ( accelerate ) , hopefully sideways too

    how long/tension of the cord + setting must work together - I'll keep same motion profiles and setup to that, I imagine it's tinkering + trial & error that will get good results I'd not bother trying to work it out on paper

    I just realized that my SCN5 may not have enough torque to work with those springs. The F1 max braking force just too much for me anyhow. I probably need 1/3 of that at most.

    As you said, trial-error-feel method is the way to go....I will get a few sets of different springs to try.

  11. #11
    Registered PearceYaussy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Alabama, USA
    Posts
    392
    Dear santa... Hahaha jeez. Id rather just buy a kart.

  12. #12
    Registered Adrianstealth's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    England (Leicester )
    Posts
    3,078
    joe, I'm sure your scn5's will be fine

    I don't think you need much pressure in the harness , just slightly higher than subtle which will enhance the overall effect nicely
    ( if it were strong it would become annoying after the novelty factor wears off I'm sure )
    [SIZE=5][/SIZE

  13. #13
    Registered Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    340
    Quote Originally Posted by PearceYaussy View Post
    Dear santa... Hahaha jeez. Id rather just buy a kart.
    Here he is coming:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MI1obFl4bw

    delivering to you:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlNkyUWInsg

  14. #14
    Registered Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    340
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrianstealth View Post
    joe, I'm sure your scn5's will be fine

    I don't think you need much pressure in the harness , just slightly higher than subtle which will enhance the overall effect nicely
    ( if it were strong it would become annoying after the novelty factor wears off I'm sure )
    Just tried with my original springs:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1010001.JPG 
Views:	361 
Size:	165.9 KB 
ID:	18734

    I tried the F3.5 and Corvette GT cars. Very impressive indeed. For GT car, I do need to fasten the belt pretty tighten in order to get a good feel. Because the belt was pulled upward so most pressure I feel is on the shoulder. Since my belt is 4-point harness there always is flex in this case:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1010002.JPG 
Views:	228 
Size:	189.0 KB 
ID:	18735

    I think 5-point harness seat belt would be best in this case. I will recommend you 5-point harness seat belt.
    Anyhow, it works!

  15. #15
    Registered Adrianstealth's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    England (Leicester )
    Posts
    3,078
    joe

    good info thanks a lot, keep posting with your progress, those springs look neat
    [SIZE=5][/SIZE

  16. #16
    Newer Member Greg23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Lafayette IN USA
    Posts
    26
    Doesn't really answer my question but has given me some good ideas for alternate activation of a seat! Thanks.

  17. #17
    Registered Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    340
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg23 View Post
    Doesn't really answer my question but has given me some good ideas for alternate activation of a seat! Thanks.
    I think only owner(s) of this GS 4 seat can answer your questions.
    However, IMHO, in theory I think this type of g-seat would not work. Basically it intends to use Newton's 3rd law to produce an effect that actually caused by Newton's 2nd law. I will not buy such seat. (I could be wrong, just be humble on this).

    The seat-mover solution, which is the way as using by SimXpericence, Frex, and CXC, etc other firms, or in X-sim forum, is to fix the Steering Wheel/pedals (not in motion), only seat is moving (roll and pitch). This approach is pretty popular. I feel it works! The muscle tensions created by your body/arms in related to the Steering Wheel (fixed) as seat moving is effectively yielding g-force effects. So a driver's body muscle will fight to balance to learn and memorize as if driving a real car. This is common design with such limit and cheap actuators, and most simulators in the market today used this approach.
    To be effective, one needs to turn UP the strength of lateral g-effect and make the seat roll between at least +/- 15 or 20 degree. As I saw many of youtube, most of them sadly did not do that, not even close. They basically experience some bump/bounce/drop and shaking effects (like the D-Box) though, instead of cornering-g and braking-g effects.
    Last edited by Joe; 12-06-15 at 04:04 PM.

  18. #18
    Newer Member Greg23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Lafayette IN USA
    Posts
    26
    Thanks Joe.

    I'm going to order a 2DoF rig from SimXperience (probably next week) and see what I think of it. It will be a vast improvement over what I have now, which is a stationary rig. If I'm looking for more I'll work on seat solutions. I just know, from reviews I've seen from people who have both, that if they could only keep one they say they would keep the seat.

  19. #19
    Registered Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    340
    FYI, just measured the braking g-force today, see:

  20. #20
    Newer Member MrJack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    13
    Hi,
    I have a 2dof simulator (scn5) and I would like to test the spring harness system .
    My first test was not great ..
    So, what spring force do you use ?
    You can see my first test, with two different spring, but not good ..

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TDu8XCnSvBc

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PqU6FfYvxN4

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •