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Thread: nVidea graphics crash soon after turorial start

  1. #21
    Registered Gazer's Avatar
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    PC now reassembled and the news is that the crashes were still happening in the reconfigured PC.
    Clearly not anything in the OS or hdds'.
    The machine at that point had a new hdd, single ntfs partition with a fresh copy of W7 x64. All others disconnected.
    All usb devices except k&m disconnected.
    A single standard lcd monitor.
    The latest 353.06 driver.

    I installed NVidia's monitoring software to get gpu/cpu temps and speed.
    I got a screenshot of those at idle, game main menu and immediately post crash.
    I've put them in the folders mentioned in my original post if anyone cares to take a look.
    Core 2 of the CPU shows a strange profile immediately before the crash.
    None of the figures are too outlandish.
    Nothing strange in the event viewer, which being a new install, was nice and clean.

    Again, it's late here so I'm going to sleep on it!

    ttfn

  2. #22
    ISI Staff Staff Michael Juliano's Avatar
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    Damn, I was really hoping you'd come back with better news. Thanks for trying though...

    Hmmm... I was just looking through your RogueSystemSim.LOG file again. You DID extract the Rogue_System folder that was included in the file you downloaded directly onto your computer, yes? It kind of LOOKS like you're trying to run RogSys from directly within the compressed file...

    If you DID extract the Rogue_System folder directly onto the HDD, could you try NOT having it nested in the version folder. In other words, from this:

    F:/Downloads/RogSys_eAccess_V0.0.6.9.15a/RogSys_eAccess_V0.0.6.9.15a/Rogue_System

    to this:

    F:/Downloads/Rogue_System

    Also, perhaps trying it on another drive (although it REALLY shouldn't matter)--I mean something lower than F: (C: or D: maybe)? (I'm not sure if your new config has more than one drive...)

    Maybe trying to run as Admin, or running the compatibility utility on it?


    This is occurring on different nVidia card series, and the same cards are working just FINE on other machines. And, this is a pretty rare problem, too--so far less than 1% of RogSys users experience this. And if I can't duplicate here then it's going to be pretty hard to debug...

    Gazer, can you PM me at your convenience, you may have a couple minutes to try something for me? Thanks...



    Edit: I just spent TWO hours trying to get my nVidia rig to fail--I can't. I'll give it some more time tomorrow and see if I can find something.
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  3. #23
    Registered Gazer's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Yes I have extracted the files and had them in a parent folder F:/Downloads/Rogue_System, I've also moved them onto different drives, with a very short path.
    Tried compatibility mode XP SP3.
    I'd like to try another graphics card but I've only got access to a GeForce 8800 GTS which I'd doubt would have enough grunt? May try it anyway.

    EDIT:

    I didn't think the 8800 would cut the mustard. It needed a change to the 341.44 driver but produced an appcrash. No surprise really, I don't think it's even got 1GB!
    Problem signature:
    Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
    Application Name: RogueSystemSim.exe
    Application Version: 0.0.0.0
    Application Timestamp: 5577364b
    Fault Module Name: RogueSystemSim.exe
    Fault Module Version: 0.0.0.0
    Fault Module Timestamp: 5577364b
    Exception Code: 40000015
    Exception Offset: 004c8576
    OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1
    Locale ID: 2057
    Additional Information 1: e2c2
    Additional Information 2: e2c2052bd688775d3dbf7300b9029d3a
    Additional Information 3: c56a
    Additional Information 4: c56aa87fd030e82a065676f305b7312c
    Last edited by Gazer; 06-19-15 at 04:12 AM.

  4. #24
    ISI Staff Staff Michael Juliano's Avatar
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    Yeah, thanks for trying. I'm pretty frustrated by this, honestly. There's no logic to this (seemingly)...
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  5. #25
    Registered Gazer's Avatar
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    The debug build has changed things.

    Initially I launched at the same resolution (windowed 1280x768) and couldn't reproduced the crash.
    I spent a good 15 mins doing everything that normally produces one within seconds.
    I exited to main menu, then desktop and back into game a couple of times without issue.

    Then I upped my resolution to match my desktop (still windowed) and tried to launch.
    The window frame was drawn but with a back background. No graphics.
    It had locked the PC so I had to do a hard reboot.
    I re-launched at that same high resolution, it successfully spawned me in the ship but immediately crashed with a TDL Error 7.

    So without rebooting, I went back to my normal test resolution - windowed 1280 x 768 and it's still working fine in the background as I type this reply. .......

    Spoke too soon! ...... Until about 2 minutes ago when it started to crash the desktop. I've managed to save this instance of IE (yeh I know!) by re-launching explorer.exe from the task manager.
    The game has indeed crashed but it has taken a good 30 minutes to do it.

    Change is good isn't it? <g>

  6. #26
    ISI Staff Staff Michael Juliano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazer View Post
    Change is good isn't it? <g>
    Well, yes and no. If the debug didn't through any exception error messages at the time of the crash then it doesn't help at all in figuring out what the problem is...
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  7. #27
    ISI Staff Staff Michael Juliano's Avatar
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    Gazer, here's an article I found--option 1 and 2 might be worth trying; but the comments suggest ANY of them COULD fix the situation. If you try these, please do so using the release version, not debug...

    http://www.instructables.com/id/How-...rror/?ALLSTEPS

    Edit: the more I read about this the more it appears that it is NOT an uncommon issue overall on nVidia (for both OpenGL AND DirectX), and that there doesn't seem to be one clear, concise cure...
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  8. #28
    Registered Gazer's Avatar
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    Hi,

    I've seen a similar list and I've noted below which have already been tried.

    1 Power supply PCI Express value to off - Done
    2 Turn off Aero - Done
    3 New Drivers - Done
    4 Windows Updates -Done
    5a GPU Underclock - Will do
    5b Memory tests - Will do
    5c TMM value - Value does not exist on this PC
    5d XP SP3 compatibility mode - Done
    6 Tdr Delay - Done
    7 Memory remove / swap - Done
    8 Cooling - CPU and GPU temps - Done
    9 LOL maybe

    So GPU underclock (already underclocked CPU) and RAM tests are worth doing. I'll run those tonight.

    I have got a bit more info but I'll post that when I've collated it better.

  9. #29
    ISI Staff Staff Michael Juliano's Avatar
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    Yeah, I figured you'd already checked off a good majority of these based on what you've done thus far. Just thought I'd mention it regardless. Thanks...
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  10. #30
    ISI Staff Staff Michael Juliano's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if you mentioned it or not, but how about DEP? Have you tried disabling that for RogSys (Turn on DEP for all programs and services except those I select)?
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  11. #31
    Registered Gazer's Avatar
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    Tested the memory last night, it passed.
    Good idea re. DEP, just turned it off, no change.
    Can you tell me what software library is a prerequisite? .Net , Visual C++ redistributables?
    I'm about to run some GPU stability test withMSI Kombustor, back later with the results.

  12. #32
    ISI Staff Staff Michael Juliano's Avatar
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    Obviously the OpenAL library--installer in utilities.

    And the microsoft VC++ redistributables (the x86 versions) (2012): http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/downl....aspx?id=30679 One person said he ALSO had to install the 2010 version, which seems a bit odd but it did get him working...
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  13. #33
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    OK thanks. When I installed W7 on a new hdd for the test a couple of days ago. I'd installed 2012 first, but needed to install 2010 version too.
    I'll repeat that if you like.

    I sent most of today running the MSI Afterburner and playing with the clock speeds. I've established that:
    I can force an immediate crash in RogSys by overclocking the GPU core from 800 Mhz to 820Mhz
    It becomes completely stable if I underclock down to 750Mhz.
    However in other programs, I can push the overclock higher and they're stable.

    Running the MSI Kombustor stress tests, has shown that the CPU and GPU are rock steady at 100%, fans blowing a gale for a good 4 hours.
    Some of the tests specifically target the OpenGL features.
    I've also run GPUTest 0.7.0 from http://www.geeks3d.com/gputest/ which includes a suite of OpenGL render stress tests.
    I'm now happy the graphics card is capable of running an OpenGL based program under high stress loads without crashing.

    So the problem isn't in the OS, HDDs or GPU imho.

    I'm going to look at the mobo bios next, but that may be Monday, as it's Fathers Day in the morning and I doubt if my girls would take kindly to me locking myself away!

    ttfn

  14. #34
    ISI Staff Staff Michael Juliano's Avatar
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    Thanks for the update. From what I've been reading that's the funny thing about this--it hits (seemingly) random nVidia users, and in many different programs--OpenGL and DirectX alike. What's worse, it never seems to have one distinct cause/solution.

    I have to wonder if nVidia recognized a "problem" at some point, and so they added the TDR error to catch it so it wouldn't hang the system? I don't know...

    Becoming stable when under-clocking is interesting. At least it let's us know there's not an issue with the shaders, etc. If there were, the clock-speed wouldn't make a difference--the GPU would choke them regardless.

    Thanks again! Yeah--Angel and my daughters have informed me in no simple terms that I'm not allowed to work on Father's Day, either
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  15. #35
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    Found a fix.

    I've removed the overclock of the GPU that was set by the factory.
    It's a MSI GSX 580 Twin Frozr II O/C model, so I've just set the core and memory back to stock values and increased the core voltage a bit. http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...php?t=18339671
    I think the more important value in this case, is the core voltage which is now running at 1050mV, up from 1038mV, thus supplying the card with more power.
    The stock value for the core clock is now down to 772MHz, from 800MHz and the memory clock down to 2004MHz, from 2048MHz.

    I'm guessing I could experiment with upping the core and memory speed, but will at some point hit the instability and / or max temps.
    Reading around, there seems to be a variation of figures these cards come out of the factory with and two supposedly identical card models, can in fact be running at different speeds. I know overclocking can be more art than science and this could explain the variation of the nVidia experience .

    Hope this helps others with similar issues and thanks for the suggestions.
    Last edited by Gazer; 06-22-15 at 03:02 PM.

  16. #36
    ISI Staff Staff Michael Juliano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazer View Post
    Found a fix.

    I've removed the overclock of the GPU that was set by the factory.
    It's a MSI GSX 580 Twin Frozr II O/C model, so I've just set the core and memory back to stock values and increased the core voltage a bit. http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...php?t=18339671
    I think the more important value in this case, is the core voltage which is now running at 1050mV, up from 1038mV, thus supplying the card with more power.
    The stock value for the core clock is now down to 772MHz, from 800MHz and the memory clock down to 2004MHz, from 2048MHz.

    I'm guessing I could experiment with upping the core and memory speed, but will at some point hit the instability and / or max temps.
    Reading around, there seems to be a variation of figures these cards come out of the factory with and two supposedly identical card models, can in fact be running at different speeds. I know overclocking can be more art than science and this could explain the variation of the nVidia experience .

    Hope this helps others with similar issues and thanks for the suggestions.
    THANK YOU! I will post this in the troubleshooting guide as a potential, interim fix. My hope is that when the planetary shaders are optimized this MIGHT help the situation. The fact that they do work in the front-end though would lead me to believe otherwise.

    From time to time I might give you a shout to try the settings your card came with from the factory to see if any improvement has been made. In the meantime, I can't thank you enough for working through the issue as you did, which may potentially help other nVidia users out!
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  17. #37
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    If it was an issue at my end, I was confident I'd find it, sooner or later!
    I've always enjoyed the diagnostic hide and seek.
    Although, the solution always seems to be the last thing you try on the list - lol!

    It may be wise to include a warning regarding altering GUI voltages. You know the sort of thing ....
    "Overclocking software can fry your very expensive graphics card" <g>

  18. #38
    New Member muraveyomsk's Avatar
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    Hello.
    I have a problem with launch a game. Can you help me? I install the game from Steam. Install newest nVidia drivers. I done all that found in this and some others forums.

    P.S. sorry for my english.

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